Arrows are better than weapons

Compound bow VS crossbow

  • Hello,

    I would be interested in whether you tend to bow or crossbow? Pros / Cons, possible uses, etc.

    Personally, I own both, but I definitely prefer to shoot with my bow. In terms of hunting, of course, the crossbow also has advantages.

    Thanks & LG

    Dave

  • So I'm going to watch the recurve shoot in the spring. But only has the logistical reason for me
    Recurve is 3 parts and can be easily stowed in side pockets or the backpack. I like to have my hands free as much as possible and not have any dangling away from my backpack.
    Since I also see the bow more as a hunting instrument than a weapon, it doesn't need to be put together all the time. In addition, it feels easier to make an arrow than a bolt. (but is only my subjective point of view)

    Lg Wintics

  • An absolutely understandable argument! Recurve bows are also a good compromise from a hunting point of view if you think long-term, as they are less susceptible and less maintenance-intensive. However, I would not resort to recurve bow hunting if a suitable compound bow is available, because the performance is simply better.

    On the subject of "guns", I totally agree. Bows and crossbows are useful tools for "quiet" hunting, they would not be my choice for self-defense.

    And last but not least, with a powerful compound bow or crossbow, I would be reluctant to shoot a self-made arrow / bolt. The risk of injury or material damage is too high.

  • Hmm ..
    I think the crossbow is best suited for a family staircase, since almost all family members can learn to use it without time-consuming practice.
    And since I have a longbow, I don't do much with compound and recurve, the respective advantages have already been listed.
    In the end, what counts is what I can handle or have trained with.
    But I don't use the bow until the ammo is used up ... ;-)

    Quiet ... Passive ... (Yoda)
    Each plan only lasts until the first contact with the enemy ... (H.v.Moltke)
    Everything is very simple in war, but the simplest is difficult! (C.v.Clausewitz)

  • Quote from Wolfman in Post # 4
    ...
    But I don't use the bow until the ammo is used up ... ;-)

    Or if it should be very quiet ...

  • 22lr.
    There’s nothing to do with ... ;-)

    Quiet ... Passive ... (Yoda)
    Each plan only lasts until the first enemy contact ... (H.v.Moltke)
    Everything is very simple in war, but the simplest is difficult! (C.v.Clausewitz)

  • A few stupid questions from someone without a bow / crossbow:

    The bow used to be one of the best hunting or war implements and was also used worldwide. Whether Mongolian equestrian or English longbow, each is certainly good for its area of ​​application.

    But now we are in Europe. Hunting with bows / crossbows is probably not allowed anywhere, so you cannot practice. The hunting courses with lifelike targets are "only" sport. In the RL the game hears or smells you, it moves, branches. Branches of bushes stand in the way. So if you want to hunt with it later in the crisis (which presupposes the total collapse of the world order), you have to be both a hunter and a good archer and can only combine both skills in the crisis. That probably doesn't work right away either.

    If you assume that arrows are broken or lost, there is no longer a factory that produces them, so you have to be able to turn and manufacture the feathers and tips. Sure, you can now buy 1000 arrows in advance ... but how long do they last if you have to hunt with them to eat for the family of 4 for the next 20 years? Apart from the fact that 10 others in your forest have the same idea ..

    And if you now spend the coal on arrows, replacement tips, plumage and not to forget sinews and wax and ..., doesn't that take up a lot of space? Do you take that with you in your BOB? Or do all archers have an SUV with a trailer or already a converted log cabin with storage space in the forest?

    Due to the problem of spare parts and repair of compound systems, you can hardly repair it yourself if something is defective, so in my opinion it should be the simplest bows / crossbows, which in turn is not too helpful for long-range or precision shots is. Or am I wrong ?

    So much for hunting. the other use is probably only relevant when the last cartridge is fired. Otherwise the Indians would have won and the USA would have a chief instead of Donald today.

    Sure, Hardy Krüger in the wild geese was world class, Rambo and Darryl Dixon also look cool on the screen. But unfortunately that is hardly the reality.

    Don't get me wrong, I respect people who can handle bows and arrows (crossbows / bolts). It also takes a lot of practice and practice and everyone can do a little more than I can. But...
    As a hobby shooting arrows or bolts is definitely a nice and good thing, is definitely fun, promotes hand-eye coordination, concentration and much more. but to feed or defend the house and farm or family with it, from my point of view, simply nonsensical.

    LG JK

  • What will be when how where - or not ... no idea what will really happen. But it's better to practice something / deal with it when you have time than when it gets tight. Yes, I have a recurve bow, yes, I have a Compund crossbow, no, I have no idea what to do with it in case of stress. But it's better to practice now than to need it then.

    I prefer to be prepared for something that never happens than to be surprised afterwards.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEG-ly9tQGk

    always nicer - but he shoots significantly better and above all differently than the committed amateur shooter.

    LG Sepp

  • I prefer to be prepared for something that never happens than to be surprised afterwards.

  • Well JK, you shouldn't be so pessimistic about the topic:

    Bow hunting and sometimes crossbow hunting is allowed in some countries in Europe - not to say we are in the few countries where it is not yet (!) Allowed:
    http://dbjv.org/bogenjagd-europa/

    After all, people have fed their families with bows and arrows for thousands of years - which of course also requires a lot of game with few people.
    At least they didn't have 1000 arrow shafts in stock back then, and didn't have to turn back then either (because arrow shafts are actually planed and scraped),
    Somehow the then very effective broadheads were conjured up from flint and natural feathers are still used today.

    Those who rely on compount systems have to invest in very expensive brand quality, because there are all spare parts and the individual parts generally last better / longer.

    What do you mean by far / precision shots?
    Is it enough to dowel 3 shots at 100m in an 8cm circle with the crossbow?
    Usual hunting distances are around 20m (arc) - that's the problem, you have to get to 20m first.

    A hunting arrow has between 25-50g, a .223 rem has about 11.2g.
    The cartridge is therefore much lighter, continues to shoot (at least 200m use) and needs less space - but it is sometimes out and how do you "carve" it in the woods and fields?
    But that thing has one more major disadvantage: noise!
    And now imagine:
    Crash! Nothing works anymore, no factories, nobody works, no vehicles on the streets, no aircraft noise.
    And then go into the forest (if there is any game left at all) and burn a hare with the .308 Win - you are good and hit, unfortunately a little deep, it wasn't the head, it tore half the hare to pieces .
    The bang of the gunshot can be heard from miles away - now make sure you come out of the forest, because everyone who heard the shot wants the killed animal - so you are no longer alone for long,
    and then you may need a lot more ammunition than you would like ...

    It is already clear that a hunting rifle is a super specialized weapon and nothing is better - but to declare the bowhunt that has fed us for thousands of years to be nonsensical is not right.

    My conclusion:
    Firearms for defense and, if necessary, for hunting, bows / crossbows for hunting and, if necessary, for defense.

  • Very nicely circumscribed! There is not much left to add.

    The basic problem with bowhunting is not precision (if you can ), but the speed of the arrow. In most cases, even with my compound bow, I hit the kill up to 70m (at least with halfway horizontal shots, if the distance is known). Even the fastest arrow is slower than the sound, so the game always hears the bang of the tendons and crouches away before the arrow is on the target. It's all well and good if I hit the target exactly in a static state but the target is different in the meantime. The result would be long searches or no hunting success. Of course, far away from hunter-hunting.

    If interested: http://www.austrianbowhunting.at/

    There may be an I.B.E.P. in the middle of this year. (International Bowhunter Education Program) Bowhunting course in Graz. If you are interested, I will be happy to forward the information.

    p.s .: I also find the topic .22 lr very exciting. I believe that if the worst comes to the worst, it will be a very important caliber. Mind game, imagine that with our game population, many people suddenly get the idea that they would like to have a deer on their plate. Whoa, the biggest game that can be hunted is a squirrel, because the population of small game in the Graz basin is rather modest.

  • Yes, the 22lr is very underestimated, of course the deer will laugh at you at 100m, but at short distances someone can start the campfire ...

    The "little one" has several advantages:
    Many times quieter than .223 and friends.
    Small and light - important for storage and transport
    Inexpensive (500 can around 45.-)
    Hardly any recoil, so a quick second shot is possible
    mostly the weapons are very light and also cheap

    Anyway, I believe that apart from: hares, squirrels and birds, there will be hardly any game.
    There is not as much game as everyone thinks, and then there is also 260,000 people (Graz) who want to hunt forage in the forest - it goes without saying that the few game that can be hunted quickly run away.
    And then there are only "long pigs" left ...

  • Some of you will have already read my post (hunting (from a prepper point of view)). Bow hunting is an interesting variant of the hunt, it works and it is - an anachronism!

    The time when people fed their families through hunting was one when Europe was much less densely populated. In the Neolithic - the last period when hunters and gatherers still lived with us - there were just half as many people as Austria currently has inhabitants!
    Until the Middle Ages, hunting was still a right for everyone, where (in addition to agriculture) every free person also had the right to hunt. When this time ended, there were about as many as there are in Germany today - spread all over Europe, mind you - from the British Isles to the Urals, from northern Norway to southern Spain.
    The continent is now at least five times as densely populated as it was back then, and we also have an enormous amount of space used by industrial areas, roads, railways and other infrastructure buildings, right through to the extremely high per capita space consumption for apartments by single households.

    The equation "what was possible then, is still possible today" unfortunately does not work! The circumstances are just too different.

    Anyone who wants to try how easy the bowhunt is, just go "armed" with a camera to the next city park and try to photograph a different prey than pigeons. Because the surrounding fields and forests will be so rich in game after a few months at the latest.

    There is no such thing as too much backup!

  • Regarding the original question:

    I have two compound bows, not a crossbow, but have shot a friend's compound crossbow several times. I clearly tend towards the bow because you can make a bow yourself (with the necessary knowledge). Admittedly, you can also build a crossbow yourself, but with more effort and a poorer overall result.
    I've been bowhunting for years, only theoretically, but that's more than most people know. It's a big industry in the US, and there's a wealth of information there too.
    A lot has already been written about the advantages and disadvantages, with the bow it is definitely an advantage that you can make all the equipment yourself, including ready-made arrows for hunting, with the appropriate knowledge this is just a matter of practice, not rocket science. There are also a lot of people (and clubs) in Austria who only shoot with self-made bows, and that's not bad. As a hunting weapon, a compound bow is definitely superior, but not really durable. For my two hunting bows I also need special carbon arrows, wooden arrows would probably "disassemble" them when I let go of the string. You have to have it in stock, of course, but like ammunition it is also a consumable item and also applies to a crossbow.
    Personally, after five years I hit better with a bow than with a crossbow because I don't practice with it. For someone who has never shot with a rifle or a crossbow, the hunt is certainly not easy, you should deal with it in better times and not wait until you need it.
    I am less worried about the number of game, simply because not that many people will actually hunt (ok, many will try but without success). In addition, the game will react very quickly to the new situation (namely that it will then be released for shooting all year round) and will no longer be as easy to get as it is now.

  • Very nicely circumscribed! The necessary skills of a bow hunter have adapted, the material has become "better" and so has the level of knowledge. Anyone who has ever tried to stalk game at 30m knows the chances of success. In small-scale and structured areas, stalking with a bow is certainly not impossible, but difficult. Therefore, modern bow hunting has switched to other variants:

    => Treestand at the change, at feeding places or for leaf hunting.
    http://www.summitstands.com/

    => Camouflage screens in similar situations.
    http://www.wildnissport.de/jagd/produkte...ood-3-in-1.html

    => The full camouflage of the bow hunter.
    http://bowhunter-msh.de/wp-content/uploa...eestandjagd.jpg


    As already said by Wiki, the absolute advantage of bow hunting: "Quiet hunting of all game species possible!" Could be important in some situations.

  • @ Wolfzeit: You are certainly right, the layman will not be crowned with hunting success right away, but I fear human greed. The hunter will shoot more than he needs himself and trade or sell the venison for horrific sums. As the saying goes: two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, but I'm not quite sure about the universe yet.

    Another question from me, if allowed => How will the game adapt to this situation?

  • Quote from John Kelly in Post # 7
    A few stupid questions from someone without a bow / crossbow:
    If you assume that arrows are broken or lost, there is no longer a factory that produces them, so you have to be able to turn and manufacture the feathers and tips.

    Hardly anyone will turn an arrow, they used to be made from branches that were as straight as possible. Tips were cast, then sanded, glued in and tied. Feathers were taken from domestic poultry and spliced ​​and tied up. Of course, the accuracy with "natural arrows" is different than with the carbon arrow from the dealer. But it used to be possible without any high-tech fuss.

    That being said, has anyone thought of a blowpipe? Works because the arrows are very, very small, of course only in connection with a paralyzing substance on the tip, but is still used today as a hunting weapon by many indigenous peoples who live in the forest.

    "What is strategically desired must match what is tactically possible."
    Bernard Law Montgomery, 1st Viscount Montgomery of Alamein, KG, QCB, DSO, PC