Joomla dies

  1. 11.03.2015, 21:22#1
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    Sorry Contao

    After I had created several websites with Contao (around 2009) I asked myself already back then .. backed the wrong horse? there was a lot going on back then, but was smiled or scolded away with the typical German arguments "yes, go then" "you have no idea" .. it was even suggested to create a "! ghetto" for unpleasant comments :-) you hardly believe it.

    One of the old customers now wants to have his website completely redesigned. Then after years you deal with Contao again and then something like that.
    When I read this: I am glad that I switched to Typo3 and Joomla very quickly.

    Just weeks ago I created a website for a Malaysian institute. They had Joomla and wanted Joomla again. And the new Joomla is at least as good but a real community and and and ... you have to say so honestly. And TYPO3 anyway. Back then it was always called "all inflated stuff" but what the heck, as bad as has always been done here, they can't be at all when it comes to distribution. OK, I admit, I don't even know the latest version of COntao ... maybe it has grown up a bit by now.

    And Contao apparently somehow survived. Some swear by it. That never fully opened up to me, as excited as I was at the beginning.

    So and now let's see which hyenas are about to pounce on me :-) but maybe there is also one or the other who can provide real arguments for Contao, which is better about Contao. Community can't be (too small, money problems ?!) Security? (I don't think so either) Extensions? (no, not really or is it?)

    Certainly one or the other will feel provoked in the worst possible way, but how do you say "a real democracy has to endure it" :-)

  2. 11.03.2015, 21:29#2

  3. 11.03.2015, 21:32#3

  4. 11.03.2015, 21:50#4
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    A discussion about different CMS would be exciting - also in this forum. But without arguments, just with feelings, it doesn't get much ...

    I would also be interested in what your reasons are.

  5. 11.03.2015, 21:59#5
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    Hello review,

    thank you for your contribution. I have no idea what posts you are referring to a few years ago. Basically, it's the good (and also the bad) that you have a large selection of different open source projects. You can pick the one that suits you best.

    When I came to Contao with Typolight 2.4 or 2.6, I had looked at various CMS beforehand. Joomla, Contenido, Typo3, Drupal, CMSMadeSimple etc. The following points were decisive for me:

    • Page-based content management (compared to Joomla)
    • Concept of content elements
    • valid clean HTML (at that time Joomla still had table layout based templates)
    • Modular and easily expandable
    • From the scope to the pages that I implement (in contrast to Typo3)
    • German-speaking (interesting for customers, present in most projects today)

    What I like about the current development of Contao
    • Implementation of innovative responsive images
    • Successful Composer integration
    • The C-C-A that initiated and managed many projects
    • MetaModels
    • The opening of the core development (integration of the core development, less of a one-man Leo show) (my external perception)

    However, I can also share concerns about Contao. I find the current development worrying at some points.
    • Withdrawal of some "draft horses" from the Contao environment, small community
    • Contao 4 is not a completely new development. Lots of compromises, compatibility layers, which will probably result in cuts again and again in the next few years.
    • Aged backend. No perspective for an urgent overhaul. The chance to take a new step with Contao 4 was missed.
    • Missing API for data retrieval / processing

    The reasons for the steps are known to me or I can guess / understand. For me, Contao is at a crossroads, where the question was decided whether Contao can continue to keep up with the enormous further development on the Internet.

    I am currently following the development of TYPO3 Neos with great interest, which in my opinion is doing a lot right.

  6. 11.03.2015, 22:08#6
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    If you just read this article by the CCA without knowing the full history, you could get it wrong.
    The point here was not that Contao can only live when a lot of money flows. This was about the biggest expansions there are for Contao, and why the promised goals were not met after the fundraising. And that was a year ago. A lot happened there.

    Like any other, this community has its fighters from time to time. So what? As the saying goes, you shouldn't feed the troll.
    Of course, other communities are bigger and therefore more powerful, unfortunately you can't really choose the members.

    Unfortunately, there are many who are still missing (testers, documentary editors, ...).

  7. 11.03.2015, 23:07#7


    for me it was exactly the opposite. I started with Typo3. That was the first and only project in my long career that, in retrospect, I have to describe as "failed". Such a crude system. Awful. The next attempt was then with Joomla 1.7. In principle it was already usable, but everything was very cumbersome and tough to use. At some point the rights system was no longer sufficient for my application, so I stopped my Joomla activities. Then I stayed with the CMS add-on from vBulletin 4 for a relatively long time. Anyone who knows vB4 knows how desperate you have to be when you use it for a long time. Since vBulletin 5 no longer met my expectations, I went back to the search and came across Contao in version 3.2.

    It was as if someone had released a handbrake. With the core functions alone, a fully functional and powerful website can be created within a few hours. You can clearly see that the makers here have learned from previous trials and tribulations of other CMSs. The pool of extensions is enormous, but I'm still a long way from creating my own extensions. If there were understandable instructions here, Contao would be the perfect CMS.

    Experiences can be so different. I don't see why anyone should argue about it, though.


  8. 11.03.2015, 23:31#8
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    Hello Webstar,

    Thank you that is a really well-founded answer and I found a lot of it conclusive at the time. But Joomla now also outputs valid HTML.
    The page-based administration was one of the main arguments for Contao for me at the time. But I got used to the Joomla concept pretty quickly afterwards.
    Is just another way of thinking, no more or less. A lot is already true, but it is a bit like VHS against Betamax back then (was that what it was called?). what good is the greatest concept if it can't keep up in the long run, for whatever reasons.


    Well somehow it doesn't matter what kind of history. Problem is problem. And sentences like: "Somehow you can't choose your members" is perhaps also an expression of a deep-seated problem of perception on the part of the "Contaoelite".

    And you should ask yourself: Why are so many testers, editors and documentaries missing? In economic analysis this means very clearly: the product is not accepted or has no real USP. If something is ailing (ok, exaggerated) then it's not always just the end user.

    Open source products are also subject, for better or worse, to the gestures of the free market. That was "deliberately" ignored at the time. Contao was SO great.
    I am now working at a university as a media designer and there are always web pages (projects, blogs etc.) needed, but I never recommend Contao.
    First of all, nobody knows that, you always have to persuade and when you do that everyone looks skeptical. Secondly, every second person has already worked with Worpress or Joomla or knows a GAANZ great site based on the same.

    Contao just has no real standing and I don't see where it's going. There may be many reasons, but the argument "Yes, the users are not working hard enough" is just as helpless as "Nobody buys my great cell phone". Why is Wordpress or Joomla or TYPO3 so successful? has that ever been questioned? Why is everyone helping and Contao is wasting away? Maybe too many years the LEO ONE MAN SHOW and some community heroes with their noses up to the sky.

    As the saying goes in marketing: "You have to pick up the customer where he is" and that's why I'm away from CONTAO because back then the tenor was rather "Are you good enough for CONTAO" instead of, for example, with Wordpress or Joomla "It ´s for everyone :-) "

    I think CONTAO has never cared about something like "external impact" or "customer sensitivities". How do I get many on board. CONTAO has never wanted to be compared and therefore often overlooked "What does the user want". What arguments I often had to hear for "WEN" the CONTAO is and for whom it is not.

    And now TYPO3 Neos came and with the standing it may not take long and it easily passes Contao.
    And if it is like the "fundraising" (sounds desperate) and then the "promised" goals are not met, then it must be said quite clearly: "Someone has taken on a lot".

    Do you think if any potential customer / user reads: promised goals not met, and that in terms of fundraising and development progress, that there is then great trust?

    Ah, whatever. Even if Contao is really good, the trust that you put in a product with a future is limited. There is no manpower (the argument came earlier: Instead of criticizing, you could have invested the 5 minutes in Contao :-) ... childish argument)


    in Joomla it works the same way with the core functions and if you understand the concept it is not a bit more cumbersome than Contao.
    And the rights system? hmm i find that more than sufficient. I don't know now what Contao can do more (well, I don't know the new one, as I said)
    But I'll be surprised in the next five years. Who knows.

    But I let it be fine now.

  9. 12.03.2015, 00:57#9

  10. 12.03.2015, 02:52#10

  11. 12.03.2015, 03:01#11
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    Quote by CeeKay
    Too bad, I was hoping for a contribution that clarifies the meaning of this topic. So far I only read from you: "Contao, ah, Joomla / Typo3 / whatever great". Don't just write empty phrases so that you can have a say. Unfortunately, most of them don't know what bad happened to you here years ago. "Fame" is not your only argument now, is it ?!
    Nothing bad at all happened :-) I found the community and the developers to be a bit narrow-minded and stubborn and in love with myself (sorry, true, my perception, doesn't have to be right). Other software chosen and is good.
    So honestly.
    Isn't just a CMS anymore. And where should it go? (I had already asked myself the question back then :-)) The really BIG ones take Typo3 or have it developed for 100,000 or buy some high-end platform. The little ones take Joomla, Wordpress etc. etc. etc.

    Contao bäh is a bit simple :-) you don't think so :-) But where is the big benefit compared to others? If you have to fear that a membership fee could possibly come as suggested (yes, I know is not up for debate, but thoughts were spun and that alone turns off and makes you confused) or the software just dies a painful death slowly because you can't keep up because ! ::::: yes the old problem. Too little of ......

    P.S awareness is unfortunately one of the big engines at Ooen Source. That is definitely an argument. For example, we decided to use Moodle, although we consider Ilias to be the better system. But the old game, more expansions, larger community, faster response times, more "trained" end users available, etc. etc.

  12. 12.03.2015, 03:09#12

  13. 12.03.2015, 03:28#13

  14. 12.03.2015, 03:45#14

  15. 12.03.2015, 03:59#15

    I wish you the same.

    Buy a few Moringa Oleifeira seeds and plant them in large pots so that you can put them indoors in winter. These grow so fast because you can almost watch them. In addition, you can eat almost any of it and the plant is super healthy.

    Stressed IT people have to have an activity / hobby from time to time that has nothing to do with computers. Then it doesn't matter which CMS you use, the main thing is that you reach your goal.

  16. 12.03.2015, 05:51#16
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    Quote by review
    oh is not true the next thing was the news that CONTAO TEAM has disbanded.
    It seems to me that you are picking out statements without ever carefully reading the reasons for your decisions. I was a long time member of the team and I tell you: The breakup of the official team was one of the best things that could happen to Contao! The (closed, small) team was dissolved in favor of opening up towards the community. Instead came the working groups, the increased involvement of the C-C-A, mumble calls, other public calls, etc.

    At that time there was sometimes the accusation that the permanent team was sitting in an ivory tower and communicating too little. Meanwhile, the way of working at Contao open and it is communicated (if you really want to listen / participate)!

    Yes, there were phases in which there was a lot of stress in the community. But from my point of view, in the end a lot has changed every time during these phases (even if it was exhausting) and afterwards there has been an improvement.

    And back to the team "dissolution": If I speak for myself at this point, it was also a good time for me privately. At that point in time, I hadn't been able to get as involved as I would have liked for a while. As a team member I was in a stupid situation because you expect a team member to be super active. By dissolving the team, I was able to relax and reduce my commitment a bit and leave the space to other, very committed people from the community. That's why, in my opinion, the working groups are so great: There is no longer any absolute fixation, but you react as required and you can take people in or let them go if the circumstances change for them.

    And you know what? With me all signs are back to "Action", because meanwhile my child was born and will soon be out of the "rough" (yes, yes, just laugh your experienced parents ). I'm working very actively on the new unofficial Contao manual, I'm writing many new mini-guides and I'm really looking forward to the summer conference. In contrast to you, I am convinced that Contao is on the right track and I am really looking forward to exchanging ideas with the other community members during this meeting.

    Nobody says Contao is perfect. Like every project, there are things here that could go better. That is why I find constructive and fact-based criticism important. For the most part, the points mentioned in the thread here do not leave me with a particularly well-founded impression. Sorry, it just seems like "Hey, I'll stop by to tell you guys that my decision to go with XYZ was a lot better without really knowing what happened here in the meantime." I have also worked with other CMS, especially TYPO3 and Wordpress, but I would never think of dropping by the forums and starting a thread like that. The sense of it is not at all clear to me, because honestly, how are you going to submit well-founded criticism if you only pick out statements from the past few years (!) And then present them in an unstructured manner out of context? In theory, you could do that with any other CMS, including Joomla, of course, but it doesn't make sense ...

    If you're happy with Joomla, that's great for you. Seriously, I am pleased every CMS user who is satisfied with the CMS of their choice. But instead of running to the CMS that you used before and telling in a generalized way how stupid this CMS is and that the new choice would be so much better ... you should look for more meaningful engagements for your time. Because your point of view is always subjective: It may be right for you, your point of view, your background and your fields of application. For the next one, his point of view / background / fields of application, it may no longer be right at all.

    Do you know what makes sense? Engagements like that of CMS Garden. There is a constructive and honest exchange between the participants (at least that's what I experienced when I took part in a Cebit for the CMS Garden). We sat together in the evening, talked openly about problems in the various CMS and noticed that many problems exist across the communities. Something like that is constructive, because it is not about pointing the finger at others, but rather to see what problems the open source community as a whole has and how to deal with them.
    Apart from that, it is of course a great idea that the Present Open Source CMS together and make it clear: "We are not against each other, we are all on the same horse: Open Source. It is not about which CMS is the" better "(what for? From what point of view? For whom? For what background?), But that all have their place."

    This is just a suggestion of where you could get involved if you are interested in doing something for Open Source CMS

  17. 12.03.2015, 08:21#17

  18. 12.03.2015, 09:31#18