Phenibut is addictive

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"Thread creator"
Absent dreamer

since 2018
2 forum posts

Written: 01/28/2018 4:26 PM
Hello,

I'm very desperate right now!

I've been taking phenibut every day for several months now. Due to the tolerance, I'm now at 40-50g a day. Sooner or later the crowd will kill me, and I can no longer finance it. Now I want to get down, but I don't know how! I've tried weaning, but it makes you as extremely depressive as cold withdrawal, which I've already tried. I was just shaking, mentally at the end of my life, and constantly had the feeling of passing out (apart from the seizures).

So what can I do to make the withdrawal more gentle? Or is there any alternative other than baclofen?

I am grateful for every answer!
 
Absent dreamer

since 2017
63 forum posts

Written: 01/28/2018 5:02 PM
last changed: 01/28/2018 17:19 by zepam (changed a total of 1 times)
Hi Janna,

hm, difficult situation. It will be difficult to find a simple solution here.

I think the main problem is that even on addiction wards there is little experience with the continuous use of Pheni in such high doses and withdrawal.

I would have thought of baclofen at first, but it is said again and again that pheni also works on the GABA-a receptors in high doses, which, to my knowledge, is not the case with baclofen. So it would be possible that baclofen alone might not be sufficient as a substitute for the down dose. (Guess)

I think the silver bullet would be to slowly dose it down, which you surely know yourself. A normal GABA powder may help you, which will not alleviate the psychological symptoms, but may alleviate the physical symptoms a little.

You should definitely avoid cold weaning because seizures can always be life-threatening.

If you don't manage to slowly lower the dose, which I can well understand, you should go to an addiction ward, i.e. suggest an inpatient withdrawal and a mixture of drugs that bind to GABA-b and GABA-a receptors. If you do have a seizure, at least someone is around.

I think it will be difficult to find a family doctor who dares to do it. But of course you can try.

Unfortunately, I can't think of anything else. : - /

Edit: I went to the basement again. I had stashed a medicine there, which my family doctor had once prescribed for me when I hit him with severe withdrawal symptoms as part of a cold alcohol withdrawal. The main symptoms were severe tremors and high blood pressure (190/90). I think that should be the same for you.

The drug is called clonidine. In theory, it should help with pheni withdrawal as well. But don't nail me to it.

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clonidin


My ass is talking wookiee
Absent dreamer

since 2017
6 forum posts

Written: 01/28/2018 6:09 PM
40-50 grams ??? Then I can only recommend you to go to a clinic for withdrawal.
 
Absent dreamer



since 2009
780 forum posts

Written: 01/28/2018 7:09 PM
last changed: 01/29/2018 00:53 by Nuke is back (changed 1 times in total)
I haven't heard of such amounts of phenibut before. In principle, I can only agree, you will probably not get around an inpatient withdrawal. It is said that you can allegedly be able to dose yourself down from Phenibut quite well with pregabalin, but you would need a lot of that too and would then stick to the next addiction.

However, I would be interested in how you can develop such an extreme consumption pattern at all, or why you have always increased the dose at a certain point (instead of sticking to the current dose), even though you have already noticed that you are financially at the limit (Sure, addiction, but still a pretty blatant dose)?
"You measure democracy by the freedom it gives its dissidents, not the freedom it gives its assimilated conformists."
"Thread creator"
Absent dreamer

since 2018
2 forum posts

Written: 01/29/18 8:44 AM
Thank you!

I will now try to dose and find out about the drug clonidine!

It all started when I got baclofen from my doctor because of alcohol withdrawal. Had 3-4 bottles of wine every night. Schnapps was often added on the weekend.
Baclofen had helped me a lot! But then I started to abuse the drug :(
When I realized that I couldn't go to my psychiatrist that often to get a prescription "again", I looked for alternatives and then came across phenibut. Unfortunately, the tolerance is there very quickly and you need more and more. I didn't want to stop doing it, mentally I was feeling way too good on this stuff!
But now it's about the amount that is bothering me physically and the financial one that forces me to quit.
 
Dream lands



since 2008
157 forum posts
1 long-term TB
2 gallery pictures

Written: 01/29/2018 11:20 AM
Hello,

that's really a huge amount. I am addicted to GBL and can use phenibut as a "light" substitute.

I would like to know from you what it feels like to be withdrawn from phenibut, as the effect of this substance is actually only very subtle, I think.

How often do you have to add more, so at what time intervals?
The past was perfect except that it ended in the present.
Absent dreamer

since 2017
63 forum posts

Written: 01/29/18 1:33 PM
Hello Janna,

Maybe I shouldn't give you this tip, but if you want to save a lot in order to make ends meet financially, you could try consuming part of your dose sublingually.

I currently consume pheni 2-3 a week, I need at least 3g orally to notice something, the effect is then rather subtle. Sublingual are enough for me 200mg, the effect occurs faster and is more noticeable.

But beware! As you probably know, Pheni is extremely acidic and therefore quickly becomes harmful to the oral mucosa. If you do this too often, your mouth will be damaged, bleeding may occur, and tooth enamel will be damaged. Often after the 2 or 3 times the oral mucosa is already clearly ridden. That's why you should only do it until the worst is over. Definitely not make it permanent.
My ass is talking wookiee
Moderator



since 2012
4,488 forum posts
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Written: 01/29/2018 1:39 PM
The Phenibut * HCl can also be neutralized with baking soda, then sublingual consumption should not be a problem.
"The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them."

-Julius Nyerere, former President of Tanzania
Absent dreamer

since 2017
63 forum posts

Written: 01/29/2018 13:51
I don't know anything about that at all. Old secondary school student. :-)

Can you give me a keyword with which I can google, that would also be interesting for me.
My ass is talking wookiee
Ex-dreamer



since 2012
3,761 forum posts
2 trip reports

Written: 01/29/18 3:27 PM
Soda is ordinary baking powder - it has a very basic effect ...

But when shopping, make sure that you get really pure baking soda, because every now and then the baking soda that you get in the supermarket has other ingredients in it. But you can get pure baking soda at a ridiculous price online (also on Amazon).

Incidentally, I would also be interested in how to neutralize something acidic like Phenibut HCl with baking soda. Just mix it and it is more tolerable for the mucous membranes or do you have to pay attention to something else? And if only mixing, what would the mixing ratio be?
Treat a stone like a plant, a plant like an animal, and an animal like a human!
Indian wisdom
Absent dreamer

since 2017
63 forum posts

Written: 01/29/2018 3:55 PM
Oh yes, of course, baking soda has a basic effect. Old home recipe for heartburn. I'll try it out.
My ass is talking wookiee
Moderator



since 2012
4,488 forum posts
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Written: 01/29/2018 5:44 PM
last changed: 24.05.20 12:22 by Neopunk (changed a total of 2 times)
@ trin and zepam:

As I mentioned several times in the LdT, the amount of NaHCO3 required to neutralize the Phenibut * HCl is 0.389 g per 1 g of Phenibut * HCl.
To do this, you dissolve both substances separately in water, e.g. 38.9 g of baking soda in one vessel and 100 g of phenibut * HCl in another. The solutions should be concentrated, otherwise you will lose phenibut, which is still dissolved in the water as a zwitterion.
When both solutions are ready, you pour carefully and with constant stirring the Phenibut * HCl solution. in small portions into the sodium hydrogen carbonate solution. This avoids excessive foaming. After all of the phenibut has been added, it must be stirred well again to ensure complete neutralization. The solution with the already precipitated phenibut is filtered (e.g. with the help of a coffee filter), but this takes some time. Once the solution has run through, the filter should be gently squeezed to remove any remaining water. Spread the filter cake on a plate to dry and wait, voilà!

Edit: I was told that there can be significant losses at times. Therefore, I recommend drying the soup completely after neutralization. Then you have a little NaCl in the Pheni, but at least no loss.
"The United States is also a one-party state but, with typical American extravagance, they have two of them."

-Julius Nyerere, former President of Tanzania
Ex-dreamer



since 2012
3,761 forum posts
2 trip reports

Written: 01/29/18 6:02 PM
Thank you very much, Neo!
Treat a stone like a plant, a plant like an animal, and an animal like a human!
Indian wisdom
Absent dreamer

since 2017
63 forum posts

Written: 01/29/18 6:27 PM
Sounds interesting. Is tried at times.


My ass is talking wookiee
Absent dreamer



since 2011
761 forum posts

Written: 01/29/18 7:48 PM
Hello Janna,

Personally, I can't even imagine how you can feel a craving after the (for me) rather unspectacular effects of Phenibut. If my tolerance is so high that I can no longer feel anything from 2g, I also lose interest in phenibut as a "self-medication". Higher doses cause neither increased anxiety relief nor euphoria, but only an unpleasant effect (especially dizziness). But that doesn't matter in your case. 40-50g a day is definitely a house number. Do you really feel such relief just from Phenibut? It seems to you to be more of a mood stabilizer than a remedy for anxiety disorders (it should also have a dopaminergic effect in higher doses), as far as I understand correctly ?! You're talking about depressive episodes when trying to stop.

In any case, if I were in your place, I would dose slowly, comparable to benzos. Perhaps in your previous attempts you have decreased the dose far too quickly. In US forums or on reddit you can also find withdrawal plans for such dose ranges that should be feasible. Personally, I would consider a maximum of 1g per withdrawal step, and maintain that for a few days. Sure, that takes a lot of discipline and willpower - could you maybe channel that with another substance for a while?

Is it possible that your high dose consumption also conceals a severe depression that requires treatment and that you can cope with better through the use of antidepressants while you are off?

I am sorry that I cannot help you directly. I have no experience with phenibut withdrawal (which is also rather rare compared to benzos or alcohol), but I also have problems with GABAergic substances, so you can send me a contact request if you don't know what to do next.

Greeting,
marble
I'm sure of my mental health
cause I'm always talking to myself

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LdT-Forum »Consumption» Addiction, Dependence & Psychological Problems »Phenibut Withdrawal