Really killed Hashirama Madara

JuubiMadara
 Post subject: Re: Why did Madara lose to Hashirama despite EMS?
Posted: 08.09.2011, 11:40 
Mizukage

Registered: 25.08.2010, 20:27
Posts: 1977
Kagemaru_Haruma wrote:
JuubiMadara wrote:
As it sounded from Madara, he wanted to lose the fight against Hashirama, in order to plan / prepare everything for the future.


No, I don't think so too? If he could have defeated Hashirama, could he have taken the lead over Konoha? I just think the thing with Hashiram's body was plan B, if he had defeated him he would have had his body plus DNA etc. ... That means who Madara Madara is ... he could have continued working on his plan without any problems ...


As a few have already written, it was not that easy, after all, his own people turned against him. And the way Madara sounded, he never forgave his clan for this behavior, nor does it suit his style.

It is also questionable whether the Senju would have accepted him as a Hokage, possibly a civil war would have broken out, and whether Madara would not have needed that for his plan, especially since he had no support from his clan.

Itachi Uchihha wrote:
I don't know, but I don't know what it brought him to let him live. An enemy who is almost at eye level with him (should he have let himself be defeated on purpose). His whole plan would not have been broken if he had killed him. He could have had the cells, pretended to be dead, slowly disappeared in the minds of his fellow men and could have worked on his operation undisturbed.
And his arch-rival would have been defeated. By him. The will of the fire would have suffered a severe setback. Given the pride of the Uchiha, that would certainly also be a reason.


Perhaps Madara went into battle with the intention of killing the first Hokage and taking possession of his DNA.
We don't know exactly what Madara wanted. It could be that the first one was just too strong and he could "only" get hold of the DNA.

We know that Madara lost the Kyuubi in battle.
Could that be part of his plan to lose the Kyuubi or to use him in this fight.

After all, we know what fear the village elders were afraid of this happening again and that they always distrusted the Uchiha. To sow this mistrust may have been part of his plan from the beginning, which then culminated in the Uchiha massacre.


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Last changed by JuubiMadara on September 8, 2011, 11:58 am, changed a total of 1 times.

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Shisui Uchiha
 Post subject: Re: Why did Madara lose to Hashirama despite EMS?
Posted: 08.09.2011, 18:57 
Kyuubi

Registered: 22.09.2009, 10:38
Posts: 18693
Itachi Uchihha wrote:
His whole plan would not have been broken if he had killed him.

To be able to say that with certainty, we would first have to know Madara's plan in detail and we don't!
Itachi Uchihha wrote:

He could have had the cells, pretended to be dead, slowly disappeared in the minds of his fellow men and could have worked on his operation undisturbed.
And his arch-rival would have been defeated. By him. The will of the fire would have suffered a severe setback. Given the pride of the Uchiha, that would certainly also be a reason.

It would actually have been bad for Madara's plans (as far as we know) to kill Hashirama, if you think a little further.
Let's say Hashirama was defeated and then? Of course, his brother would have moved up immediately. You could now continue to spell that Madara gets this out of the way too. Then Konoha would have lost its Senju Elite and Hiruzen would still be too young to take over. This would have weakened the leadership position of the Senju clan and, where possible, the Uchiha would have benefited. Perhaps they would not have given the Kagen straight away, but they could easily have expanded their position in the village. The only problem is that Madara cannot use a powerful, influential Uchiha clan for his plans, but rather a discontented, rebellious and greedy for power.
The way it really went for him it was almost perfect, he survived all his adversaries and now he is about to perform Mooneye.


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Kagemaru_Haruma
 Post subject: Re: Why did Madara lose to Hashirama despite EMS?
Posted: 08.09.2011, 19:55 
Kazekage

Registered: 22.08.2011, 11:37
Posts: 3275
Shisui Uchiha wrote:
Itachi Uchihha wrote:
His whole plan would not have been broken if he had killed him.

To be able to say that with certainty, we would first have to know Madara's plan in detail and we don't!
Itachi Uchihha wrote:

He could have had the cells, pretended to be dead, slowly disappeared in the minds of his fellow men and could have worked on his operation undisturbed.
And his arch-rival would have been defeated. By him. The will of the fire would have suffered a severe setback. Given the pride of the Uchiha, that would certainly also be a reason.

It would actually have been bad for Madara's plans (as far as we know) to kill Hashirama, if you think a little further.
Let's say Hashirama was defeated and then? Of course his brother would have moved up immediately. You could now continue to spell that Madara gets this out of the way too. Then Konoha would have lost its Senju Elite and Hiruzen would still be too young to take over. This would have weakened the leadership position of the Senju clan and, where possible, the Uchiha would have benefited. Perhaps they would not have given the Kagen straight away, but they could easily have expanded their position in the village. The only problem is that Madara cannot use a powerful, influential Uchiha clan for his plans, but rather a discontented, rebellious and greedy for power.
The way it really went for him it was almost perfect, he survived all his adversaries and now he is about to perform Mooneye.



Yes, I have to say good thinking! But what I wonder is if he would really put his plan over his rivalry with Hashirama? Since this was something like that of Naruto & Sasuke ...
If he had killed the two Hashirama brothers, he would have been able to take over Konoha straight away, although everyone was against in, I think ... But he wanted revenge on everyone from Konoha, I got it! Would then have been able to take revenge on everyone who, apart from Hashirama and Tobirama, would have been able to take on him back then? Or didn't he care about the Konoha afterwards?


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