The army still uses bayonets

Bayonet - sharp or not?

  • Hello
    At the flea market someone told me that the bayonets were in WW2 or were not allowed to be sharpened. if you find a sanded one nowadays it is a "front bayonet" or it has been sanded afterwards.
    Were there bayonet attacks at all in WW2? Doesn't it matter in hand-to-hand combat whether it's sharp or not? why should grinding be forbidden?
    apart from its use as a weapon, a sharpened bayonet can also be used as a "tool", right?
    I would be interested in your opinion
    greetings, michi

  • Hello!

    Some have been sanded - most not at all.
    Yes, there was "bayonet fighting" during the war. Most of the time, the side gun is used, e.g. when prisoners of war are guarded. When the bayonet is mounted it is very difficult to aim the rifle properly.

    In my time as a hunter captain, the order was "bayonet!" only if you were 50 m or closer to the enemy.

    B.

  • Hello,
    In the "service instruction for the Reichsheeer" it says: The side rifle (bayonet) must not be misused (i.e. only for assault at close range or similar). It was certainly also used as a tool in action.
    Since this edged weapon was burnished against rust, it was not allowed to grind it (bright -), which would also have caused a shine in the sun, even though there was no camouflage any more during the assault after the side gun was "cleared".
    The (formal) command was: "Sidearm - plant up!"
    The spade was often used instead of the side gun (e.g. to split the skull !!!!).
    But since you had the carbine in your hand and the spade was "cleared" on the command izwar in the belt for quicker access, it was still useful to have the rifle on the carbine, because one z. B. could stab faster in house-to-house combat.
    This also applies if you shot yourself, the loading chamber was empty or you had not yet repeated. That was still quicker than picking up the spade first, because using the spade and rifle with side rifle at the same time was not possible. Either or.
    There are photos of house-to-house fights with the side gun attached. If you hadn't needed it, the soldiers wouldn't have carried it, like a gas mask. Even with a gas mask, like a fencing exercise, stabbing and defending against straw puppets was practiced (both over here and there). There were also specially made wooden weapon mock-ups. These exercises were feared because the experienced instructor "patted" the soldiers on the fingers / ribs.
    At least I don't know of any regulation about bayonet fighting in the Wehrmacht.
    Pistols, submachine guns and le. MG and, as in WWI, hand grenades and close-range combat equipment were predominantly the weapons preferred for penetrating positions / trenches in WWII, rather than edged weapons.
    Greetings Karl

  • Why a bayonet isn't sharpened should be:
    The bayonet is a cutting and not a stabbing weapon. If it were sharply sharpened, it would only result in a "small, sharply outlined wound" in the event of an attack.
    A "blunt" weapon, however, literally rips open a large hole, the effect of which is even greater due to the torn edges of the wound.

  • And what about the machete bayonet?

    [Blocked Image: http://www.egun.de/market/uploaded/1333341_4631e778471a4.jpg]
    Source: Egun

    With a thing like this, I cut a birch tree the size of a forearm with a single blow ...

    Greeting,
    Lisa

    "Courage on the battlefield is common to us, but you will not infrequently find that very respectable people lack moral courage!"
    Otto von Bismarck

  • Hi @ll
    @ Lisa
    The blade shape is * optimized * for the cut, the pricking is only the * secondary use *.
    The thing is probably more of a tool than a weapon, I'll guess pioneer accessories, it will definitely be polished.
    Greeting
    Rene

  • Hello,
    The German bayonets are not cutting weapons. How is that supposed to work with a fixed bayonet? A battle ax is a cutting weapon. A sword is a cut and a stabbing weapon. The educational film I saw only showed it as a stabbing weapon. The English were also trained in jump-offs.

    Hi Lisa,
    as far as I know, a Spanish machete bayonet.

    Greetings Karl

    P's contributions summarized, Raffael

  • That's right, for the Spanish 98k.
    Unfortunately, I don't know where my father got it from ...

    Original by Karl Grohmann
    ... The English were also trained in jump-offs.

    The Japanese too. However, on Chinese prisoners of war ...

    Original from Rellem
    Hi @ll
    @ Lisa
    The blade shape is * optimized * for the cut, the pricking is only the * secondary use *.
    The thing is probably more of a tool than a weapon, I'll guess pioneer accessories, it will definitely be polished.
    Greeting
    Rene

    Display More

    Is sharpened and served me well when looking for bunkers until fixed knives with blades> 8 cm were banned.

    Stop a machete.

    As I said, I don't know anything about this gun, except that it is supposed to fit on every 98k ...

    Original by ChrisMAg2
    Why a bayonet is not sharpened should be:
    The bayonet is a cutting and not a stabbing weapon ...


    Somebody else has already commented; I personally believe in a spelling mistake here, otherwise the rest would be pointless, because it is clearly about a stabbing weapon:

    ... If it were sharply sharpened, it would only result in a "small, sharply outlined wound" in the event of an attack
    A "blunt" weapon, however, literally rips open a large hole ...

    , ... but also needs a lot more force. If you have a bayonet, try it on a piece of pork belly for fun and you'll see that ...

    ... which is even more effective due to the torn wound edges ...

    ... not true. If you don't change the angle very far, it just slips out of the puncture channel again (fat and blood are good lubricants) ...

    Greeting,
    Lisa

    "Courage on the battlefield is common to us, but you will not infrequently find that very respectable people lack moral courage!"
    Otto von Bismarck

  • Original by Karl Grohmann

    As this edged weapon was burnished against rust, it was not allowed to grind it (bright -)

    Browning is only used for optics and is not a rust protection.

  • Were soldiers who had jagged their bayonets shot immediately upon capture? As it happened in part in the First World War ...

  • Wolf 310,
    please name the source, because I learned it differently.
    Why are all weapons (handguns at least) burnished, if not stainless?
    When it comes to army weapons, optics are secondary.

    Greetings Karl

  • It didn't make sense. That's why it shouldn't be. Get out of your opponent. But first try a smaller chicken.
    LG
    Matthias

  • Reverb together

    so it was the case that these saw bayonets were actually intended as tools. But in the first case everyone uses every weapon for their life.
    The shooting was mild. There are cases where the jaw was cut off and the soldier suffocated with sawdust, since he had to saw with the bayonet beforehand.
    However, the pioneers often thought that the mutual pioneers also had saw bayonets, what should happen. I suspect the leadership wasn't taking the issue seriously enough, which is why these things were being given out. It was known that pulling back caused terrible wounds. I should read about the Hague Land Warfare Regulations first. It is very extensive because there are many additional agreements to it.

    Greetings Karl

  • Original by Karl Grohmann
    Wolf 310,
    please name the source, because I learned it differently.
    Why are all weapons (handguns at least) burnished, if not stainless?
    When it comes to army weapons, optics are of secondary importance.

    Greetings Karl

    Experience

  • Original from wolf310

    Browning is only used for optics and is not a rust protection.

    I love statements that are based on "experience"!

    Just take a look here:

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Br%C3%BCniert

    My experience tells me that guns on which the finish was scuffed from frequent use RUSTED! These were then sent to the Inst and came back freshly burnished (among other repairs).

  • The "Handbook of the German Infantry" says:

    "... The side rifle," planted "on the rifle during combat, had long since lost its importance as a close combat weapon from the First World War. This can already be seen from the fact that bayonet training in the Wehrmacht no longer took place. Sidearm "Worn by the soldier until the end of the Second World War, but used more for purposes other than combat. Assault attacks and close-quarters combat with the sidearm attached were the exception."

    mfg matthias

  • Exactly! Let's get back to the subject.

    For the above discussion "What who said and meant" only this little text from me (and afterwards it should be done please) -> please do not shoot sparrows with cannons, a flippant remark should not call for a mod ( and if then a short PM to the perpetrator is enough), otherwise we have all discussions constantly interrupted and ruined by "reproaches".
    Both to bf109 as well as to wolf and everyone else -> do not withdraw because of such a guerrilla war!

    *************************************************************

    On the subject: in the old forum we had a very detailed discussion about hand-to-hand combat in WW II, especially about the usefulness of bayonet combat.
    As already mentioned by frontline, it said there that the WH was on an instructor. waived in the "bayonet fight" (as was still the case in WW I).
    One of our users also had a source in which it said -> the close combat is decided by the quick shot, the targeted hand grenade throw or the blow with the feldspade, etc.

  • Hello Chris MAg2 and others a.,

    With reference to my previous contributions, I also agree with you insofar as you could of course strike with the side gun (blow). But that was not the actual purpose. OK ?
    Basically everything that leads to victory or survival applies in combat.
    Greetings Karl

  • Hello
    Thank you for your answers, even if it is a bit worn, but the reason for NOT grinding is still not clear to me. it just can't be because of the burnishing, right?
    greetings michi